View Full Version : Sap Transfer Pumps -- Let's Get Specific
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Andy VT
In Swingpure's ongoing thread, the subject of sap transfer pumps came up and was quite controversial.
Statements have included that pumps that are "officially" food grade are hard to find, and that food grade pumps are easy to find. Some say it is fine to use pumps that are not officially "food grade" and some say that is unethical or dangerous practice.
I am wondering if we can get specific on this in one thread.
What do you use to pump sap, and can you provide a link to it on a vendor website or a vendor part number, specifically how you use it, and include what evidence you have that it is safe to use for a food product? What pumps have you heard of being used that you think shouldn't be, and why? I'm thinking of pretty much any pump you might be using in your sugaring operation except the vacuum pump for your tubing system which I'd consider another topic.
DrTimPerkins
Regulations and recommendations vary somewhat, but tend to say things like:
"food-grade",
"water potable", or
"suitable for the intended use"
LMP Maple
I love this topic and am just getting around to chiming in. Every year I make a list toward the end of the season on ways to improve i.e. increase efficiency. This past year my bottle neck is the sap transfer pump from my holding tank to my truck tank. I bought an USA adventure pump last year. Nice little unit all food grade says so on the pump/packaging believe the wording is for potable water. It is basically a sureflow pump in a case. Pump was not cheap id say 500 or so. As much as it beats lugging 5 gallon pails I am not sure it is much faster. I think it is rated for 5 gallons a minute. So thinking ahead I said ok pump is limiting factor I am going to upgrade. Well finding a bigger pump that says potable water or food grade is next to impossible. The honda or generac water pumps that most guys are using do not specifically say potable water although if you ask them on the website they say it is ok to use for this but not sure if I should go that route or can believe them. I could get a small honda pump for 400 that would triple my output. So I poked around Bascoms website and they sell a sap pump that looks to be a Chinese knock off in the 400 dollar range and I would be surprised if it says food grade or potable water, but they should know right and they sell it as a sap pump. I was also up in the NEK last weekend and pick and shovel has sap pumps for sale in same range with no markings that say food grade etc. So what are we to do, I want to do everything by the books however the suppliers don't seem to be too concerned so should we be? I can tell you when I was growing up it was a trash pump in the tank through non-food grade hose etc. but I want to be better. There are food grade pumps for the beer guys in the dollar range seems like over kill all stainless. The lack of responses to this thread seems to tell me that there may not be a good answer. I wanted to at least let you know that the USA Adventure pump might be a good option. I ran it off a deep cell battery and it will also run off a cigarette lighter. It is food grade and did ok for me if you have the time. Its my personal bottle neck but I am trying to work a full time job and process sap on the same day it runs so time is my enemy.
johnallin
I had a Honda 1" pump that I used for 3 years to pump from a collection tank up to the sugar house.
Even though I used it only for Maple, it did bother me that the aluminum impeller got pretty nasty looking each year (pitted and oxidized) when I'd break it down to clean.
After looking for an affordable pump labeled/rated for potable water and not being successful, I finally decided that I was done with pumps and it was time for vacuum.
I think that many operations - large and small - have evolved the same way, eliminating the need for a transfer pump.
End result being that an affordable high-volume pump for potable water, does not present a big market.
Potable Water Pumps are out there and used in lots of applications, problem is they're not cheap and vacuum begins to look better every day.
If there's any way you can "coax" your sap up to the sugar house with 3/16" and a Sure-Flo" pump, you may be further ahead.
If you're collecting road side or off property, your choices are pretty limited - go Honda or equiv or spend big bucks for a rated pump.
This is not a hit at anyone using non-rated pumps, rather an attempt to explain why I think rated pumps are so hard to come by in a price range that makes sense to a smaller producer.
darkmachine
Any pump that is "certified" for domestic water supply should be fine, the problem is that once you add a maple sticker on it the price rockets, i guess that's an assurance tax. Aluminum sap buckets are still common, so i wouldn't be afraid of leaching, however maybe pitting from cavitation releasing larger particles of aluminum, i don't know if the conditions inside the operating pump would be right for cavitation. The duration of time sap is in contact with any equipment can raise questions, i'd say the least amount of worry would come from something like a water pump where the sap is in contact less than a second. That being said a nasty old pump leaking oil or grease into the pump housing is a no no, lol. keep everything clean and as bacteria free as possible between uses. Just my thoughts :)
Swingpure
The duration of time sap is in contact with any equipment can raise questions, i'd say the least amount of worry would come from something like a water pump where the sap is in contact less than a second. That being said a nasty old pump leaking oil or grease into the pump housing is a no no, lol. keep everything clean and as bacteria free as possible between uses. Just my thoughts :)
On the plastic bilge pump I will be using, as a transfer pump, from my 35 gallon narrow necked food grade tank into other food grade tanks, theoretically 9.8 ounces of sap will pass through the pump every second, making sap to plastic contact very minimal. gph/8.34 gpm
At the end of each day I will flush the pump out with fresh water or permeate.
VT_K9
We use two Honda high pressure pumps to move sap from two collection points in the woods. We use a Wayne cast iron type if we need to move sap or near syrup around the sugar house. The pumps are cleaned well at the end of the season. The Wayne is flushed several times with hot water at the start, during, and end of the season. When the Wayne goes we'll buy a clearly marked pump suitable for potable water.
It would be nice to find a 2" high pressure (like the Honda) which is marked potable. I am sure there will be a good cost to go with it.
Mike
Swingpure
This might be an opportunity to identify and perhaps list by price and gph, higher volume water pumps, that are food grade or for potable water. I just did another search and I came up empty.
I think most people would prefer using a food grade/water potable transfer pump if they could find one, and for the back yarder, who is not regulated, a pump that is also affordable.
If you are using such a pump please post it.
Dr Perkins what do you use at your facility?
TapTapTap
This is a great question since I think that many producers use a little 2"Honda transfer pump, even certified organic producers. I think it technically doesn't meet the organic rules and the fraction of a second contact time isn't an excusable exception.. we need to realize that whatever contaments you pick up in the pump will concentrate by 40 to 50 times by the time it becomes syrup.
My sap collection uses an electric releaser (with a potable water well pump) that discharges directly into my raw sap tank at the sugar house. The sap then flows by gravity to the RO. Another part of my woods uses a CDL sap lifter that pushes the sap up to my electric releaser (through the vacuum side) by two little seaflow in-line dc electric pumps which are rated for potable water. They have a 280 gal per hour capacity and cost only about $40 each. However, they aren't a real good option for bulk transfer since they're not duty cycle rated.
Ken
Spanielslovesappin
NSF Cert for water seems to be the standard for maple/brewing industry. Two pumps i use and like in addition to goulds deep well submersibles in the in releaser.
More Beer.com PMP100
This a great deal but had been in and out of stock all year.
.8 HP ss Jet pump with a SS motor. Is is made by EBARA a spanish pump company in the EU, not china. 13 GPM@ no lift, Max lift of 70' It is a customized Ebara JEU series pump. I am lifting sap 20' of elevation, 50' of 1" pipe to my evaporator feed tank and getting ~12 GPM. This pump has been in and out of stock all year. $400
https://www.morebeer.com/products/pump-centrifugalstainless-1.html
For bigger Capacity.
Gould LB 20GPM 1HP SS Jet pump (Also NSF) I prefer the LBTE as it has a TEFC motor. either for $671. This is the pump that H2O uses as the feed pump on their 600 GPH Ro's. It's a Great deal.
https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p--goulds-lb-lb-series-booster-pump-with-noryl-impeller-1-hp-1-ph-20-gpm.aspx
They have the 1/2 HP version as well for $ 612 https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p--goulds-lb-lb-series-booster-pump-with-noryl-impeller-0-5-hp-1-ph-20-gpm.aspx
eustis22
I use a: [Lanchez 1 HP Shallow Well Pump&#;Garden Pump, Portable Stainless Steel Water Transfer Draining Irrigation Jet Pump for Water Removal, Lawn Fountain Pump GPH 147 Feet Height] to move sap from my collection barrels onto the truck and from there into my holding tank.
With competitive price and timely delivery, HESPER sincerely hope to be your supplier and partner.
Andy VT
Thanks for reviving this thread everyone!
One thing is clear. I owe it to the maple world this year to measure the official flow rate of my food grade 5 gallon pails powered by food grade elbow grease.
Bigschuss: You said the following: "Just my 2 cents, do your grandkids a favor and find a food safe pump. They are easy to find and really not that much." Can you link to some of your favorite inexpensive food-grade pumps?
bigschuss
Hi Andy. Well, I don't have favorites as I only need and use one, and it has worked for me over the years. I bought it about 10 years ago based on a recommendation right here on this forum on a thread I found just like this one.
Here's the pump:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GX34LF5/?coliid=I3QYIWH7O3HIGP&colid=26B1WLXY0R299&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Looks like it's discontinued. For my 90 tap operation this size is adequate. Forgot how much it was...I recall $140 or so back then? Don't know if that's inexpensive or not? To me it was. Seems like there are plenty of options out there for food grade or food safe pumps in this category. Maybe the problem is for the professionals and the large volume hobbyists these small beer brewing pumps are not sufficiently sized. I get that. I made that comment in Swingpure's thread as, like me, he's a small volume hobbyist.
I am certainly no expert. I just wouldn't personally use a non food-safe or food-grade pump off the HF shelf in my sap. But if somebody where so inclined, I recall the important thing to look for is an impeller that's not cast. That and proper cleaning and it's probably fine.
Andy VT
That's a helpful addition to the thread, thanks!
Swingpure
I had seen the chugger pumps and they are very good brewing pumps and there are some knockoff food grade ones that are fairly inexpensive.
All of the ones I saw were 115v and I was concerned if you could use them outside while it was raining or snowing. I am looking to see if there are any 12v ones, but I have not found them yet.
I could get 115v power to two collection locations, but not to the main one.
NhShaun
I have been researching this topic for about 5 years before finally pulling the trigger on my first sap pump, Which of course was a super expensive pump. Food grade certification and fast transfer speed were my two important factors. This pump is super fast and comes with the NSF/Ansi certifications. I power it by an outlet at my sugar shack and a generator mounted on my trailer when at my collection locations.
The same NPE pump is for sale on the CDL website and used for RO infeed pumps?. I went for the TEFC motor option instead of the ODP, also stepped up the HP from 1/2hp to 3/4hp, which raised the price quite a bit but seemed worth it since the pump will likely be exposed to lots of moisture, snow and rain during the season. The exact model for that option is 1ST1D4D4 (https://www.pumpcatalog.com/goulds/npe-npe-f-316l-ss-stainless-steel-pump-series/1st1d4d4/)
Here (https://d1pkofokfruj4.cloudfront.net/media/upload/resource/e/Goulds-NPE-Technical-Brochure-BNPE-R9-2-21-316L-SS-Centrifugal-Pumps-.pdf) is their manual that explains the differences in the models and their number coding system.
I toyed around with the idea of custom making my own pump. Using the same motor from the Wx10 similar to this (https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product__?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Engines%20%3E%20Vertical%20Engines&utm_campaign=Honda%20Engines&utm_content=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHrZHE3MyzP2-Idan9GXRrm_tL9OIfpxSC4Cbz_0TZ7i8MAqnO_FcoaAnsqEALw _wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) pump that tons of people use and adding this stainless pump head which is about $(Crazy right?)
1STFRMB4F (https://www.pumpcatalog.com/goulds/npe-npe-f-316l-ss-stainless-steel-pump-series/1stfrmb4f/)
Swingpure
I have been researching this topic for about 5 years before finally pulling the trigger on my first sap pump, Which of course was a super expensive pump. Food grade certification and fast transfer speed were my two important factors. This pump is super fast and comes with the NSF/Ansi certifications. I power it by an outlet at my sugar shack and a generator mounted on my trailer when at my collection locations.
The same NPE pump is for sale on the CDL website and used for RO infeed pumps?. I went for the TEFC motor option instead of the ODP, also stepped up the HP from 1/2hp to 3/4hp, which raised the price quite a bit but seemed worth it since the pump will likely be exposed to lots of moisture, snow and rain during the season. The exact model for that option is 1ST1D4D4 (https://www.pumpcatalog.com/goulds/npe-npe-f-316l-ss-stainless-steel-pump-series/1st1d4d4/)
Here (https://d1pkofokfruj4.cloudfront.net/media/upload/resource/e/Goulds-NPE-Technical-Brochure-BNPE-R9-2-21-316L-SS-Centrifugal-Pumps-.pdf) is their manual that explains the differences in the models and their number coding system.
I toyed around with the idea of custom making my own pump. Using the same motor from the Wx10 similar to this (https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product__?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Engines%20%3E%20Vertical%20Engines&utm_campaign=Honda%20Engines&utm_content=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHrZHE3MyzP2-Idan9GXRrm_tL9OIfpxSC4Cbz_0TZ7i8MAqnO_FcoaAnsqEALw _wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) pump that tons of people use and adding this stainless pump head which is about $(Crazy right?)
1STFRMB4F (https://www.pumpcatalog.com/goulds/npe-npe-f-316l-ss-stainless-steel-pump-series/1stfrmb4f/)
That is a great pump. It is $ Cdn on the CDL website.
LMP Maple
Thank you for the information on that stainless pump. That would certainly do the trick. I don't think I can get the better half on board for that this year but glad to see a potable water pump does exist and it looks like that one would move some sap. I will have to stick with my little one for this year.
NhShaun
Thank you for the information on that stainless pump. That would certainly do the trick. I don't think I can get the better half on board for that this year but glad to see a potable water pump does exist and it looks like that one would move some sap. I will have to stick with my little one for this year.Any pump is better than dealing with buckets in my book. I still can't believe i waited until my 7th season to actually buy a pump to move sap around.
Brien
How bout hoses? What does everyone hook their transfer pump up to? Garden hose? Clear braided hose?
Swingpure
How bout hoses? What does everyone hook their transfer pump up to? Garden hose? Clear braided hose?
I hook mine to water potable RV hoses.
Pdiamond
I use RV hose it's potable water.
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